wombat_socho (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
wombat_socho) wrote2007-05-09 09:50 am
wombat_socho) wrote2007-05-09 09:50 am
Entry tags:
Lies, damned lies, and politics
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mplsvala wants to convince me (and, presumably, others) that we were all lied to about Iraq, W is EVIL, etc. This is wasted effort.
She quotes a commenter at Townhall.com who claims that the UN inspectors were making good progress before W ordered them out. Does this look like good progress to you? And this is just one month of the many months that the inspectors were in Iraq. The whole history of the weapons inspection process is one of people being led around by the nose and continually frustrated by the Hussein regime. To those who say there were no WMD in Iraq, this is obvious nonsense. Iraqi use of chemical weapons against the Iranians and Kurds is a matter of historical record, and in fact chemical munitions have been found. Why haven't we found more? Probably because they were shipped to Syria.
As for the accusation that "facts were being fixed", this is asinine. Everyone in the intel business understands that intelligence work is not 100% guaranteed. Good sources don't always deliver, bad sources sometimes tell the truth, and there can be honest disagreement about what the evidence means. Unfortunately a lot of politicians either don't understand this or prefer to exploit those disagreements and call those choosing different interpretations "liars", which doesn't help sort out what's actually going on. I find it interesting that the commenter would name Joe Wilson, in fact; let's look at what's happened to him, shall we? The man is free and walking the streets despite having lied to Congress and damn near everyone else about his wife, his trip to Niger, and what the Iraqis were up to there. All of this is on the record, but people still hold Wilson and Plame up as soem kind of holy martyrs to the lies and wrath of W. Some martyrs.
You can believe what you want to believe, but save your concern, okay? I don't just read the mainstream newspapers and I don't just read the right half of the blogosphere. The notion that I would undergo some kind of Damascene conversion if only I could see the truth is patronizing at best and insulting at worst. To paraphrase Lynyrd Skynyrd, if you want to talk politics, buddy, you just wastin' time.
EDIT: Post title edited to be slightly less inflammatory.
mplsvala wants to convince me (and, presumably, others) that we were all lied to about Iraq, W is EVIL, etc. This is wasted effort. She quotes a commenter at Townhall.com who claims that the UN inspectors were making good progress before W ordered them out. Does this look like good progress to you? And this is just one month of the many months that the inspectors were in Iraq. The whole history of the weapons inspection process is one of people being led around by the nose and continually frustrated by the Hussein regime. To those who say there were no WMD in Iraq, this is obvious nonsense. Iraqi use of chemical weapons against the Iranians and Kurds is a matter of historical record, and in fact chemical munitions have been found. Why haven't we found more? Probably because they were shipped to Syria.
As for the accusation that "facts were being fixed", this is asinine. Everyone in the intel business understands that intelligence work is not 100% guaranteed. Good sources don't always deliver, bad sources sometimes tell the truth, and there can be honest disagreement about what the evidence means. Unfortunately a lot of politicians either don't understand this or prefer to exploit those disagreements and call those choosing different interpretations "liars", which doesn't help sort out what's actually going on. I find it interesting that the commenter would name Joe Wilson, in fact; let's look at what's happened to him, shall we? The man is free and walking the streets despite having lied to Congress and damn near everyone else about his wife, his trip to Niger, and what the Iraqis were up to there. All of this is on the record, but people still hold Wilson and Plame up as soem kind of holy martyrs to the lies and wrath of W. Some martyrs.
You can believe what you want to believe, but save your concern, okay? I don't just read the mainstream newspapers and I don't just read the right half of the blogosphere. The notion that I would undergo some kind of Damascene conversion if only I could see the truth is patronizing at best and insulting at worst. To paraphrase Lynyrd Skynyrd, if you want to talk politics, buddy, you just wastin' time.
EDIT: Post title edited to be slightly less inflammatory.
Facts were being fixed
Re: Facts were being fixed
"wants to convince me"
Actually, while I can see why you might think so, that isn't the case. If I had been mistakenly lumping you in with those with an interest I would have said so, you're on lj. Those I had in mind actually asked. I'm on a new board (ToTheCenter) and several different people there asked for info of this type. I thought that probably someone I knew might have some links handy. I don't have any of mine on the new computer yet. If it had occurred to me that you might make that leap, I'd have mentioned that I downloaded an anti-Bush icon specifically to use for posts of that type so that people who felt like you would know to skip them. I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. (In fact, I thought we had.) I do it all the time on a vast array of topics. You can't agree with anyone about everything. I can understand that you might never want to hear another word of politics out me, but still want to see if your kids did anything interesting that I happened to mention. I thought that I was making that easy for you. Please be assured that my anti-Bush comments are not aimed at you and you can ignore them without fear that you might be mentioned. I'm surprised that you opened the cut. I did wonder at your response, but took it as a "this makes me mad but I'll change the subject rather than vent" and played along. Sorry if I could have spared you distress and/or insult by saying the above in response to that comment.
Re: "wants to convince me"
Not really, thanks.
I didn't realize that the Bush icon signified a political content notice/warning, though perhaps I should have. Thanks for the clarification.
no subject
no subject
A link you might like
You've probably run across him, but just in case you haven't I thought it was worth a mention. Supposedly this guy was a Hollywood type who suddenly felt called to go to Iraq and do his own documentaries. He had post from an Army Ranger that I think you'd really like. He's trying to build a movement you might be interested in looking at.
Re: A link you might like