wombat_socho

Personally, I can taste the diff in organic food, it does taste better to me, but YMMV.
On a slightly related issue, I have added the environment to the list of topics I will discuss only when I am ready for war (joining politics and religion) I am studiously avoiding this LJ post
http://craftygeekette.livejournal.com/14301.html

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Quick question, Qob... have you seen Inconvenient Truth?

(Not picking fights here, simply curious. If the answer is no, I do suggest you at least see the film for the counterpoint perspective. It's a fascinating documentary, whether or not you agree with it.)

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Not seen it, I might when it's not so cold.

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Definitely see it. It's a decent primer on the science of global warming, and I know several conservatives who watched the film and really thought they got a lot out of it.

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The $64,000 question, though, isn't what we're going to do, it's what China, India and suchlike countries are going to do, as this article (http://www.economist.com/debate/democracyinamerica/2007/02/going_green.cfm) points out. It doesn't make a whole lot of difference to the overall situation if China and India and Brazil are making up for whatever we do by driving more cars, burning more coal, etc. etc.

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Ah, but it doesn't hurt to lead the charge in the right direction. We've been the bastion of wasteful living for decades. It wouldn't hurt to try to turn the tide before we squander the rest of our international goodwill and become a global minority on all counts.

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Uh-huh. As if they paid much attention to our leadership in other areas. You have to remember it's only been a little over fifty years since we turned Mao's only son to dog food in Korea, and our relations with the Brazilians and Indians have occasionally been nearly as bad. People remember those things. I figure our chances of convincing them to go green and accept a lower standard of living to save Bangladesh from being washed out to sea eight times a decade instead of seven are somewhere between slim and none, but then I'm a pretty cynical guy.

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Regardless, its better to make an example by being the good guys rather than just throw our hands in the air and say fuck it, just because the bigger kids are insisting on being asshats.

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*shrugs* So far the costs of conforming to Kyoto weighed against the stated benefits aren't enough to sell me on the idea of lowering my standard of living by 30% -or more, depending on whose numbers you want to use. If the global warming types want to convince me they're serious, I'd like to see the anti-nuclear types stuffed in a closet somewhere so we can get back to cranking out the gigawatts of electricity we need to run this country if we're going to stop using coal and oil for fuel.

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Well, I failed. I responded to the message. Now the thing is I don't rule out that humans have an effect on global climate, I simply feel it's impossibly arrogant to think we can destroy the planet. At most we can destroy ourselves. The planet did fine before us and will be fine when we're gone.

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I think it's totally possible that we can destroy the planet, if only in the infinite-monkeys-at-typewriters sort of way. I do agree, though, that it's not likely. The sort of global change that we seem to be eliciting through our actions is the type that can easily wipe us out, but not entirely zotch earth life. If it doesn't wipe us out, it's already busy depleting the species variation on a global level. (While species do normally go extinct, they're doing so at a far accelerated rate.)

Of course, saving our own fragile hides is a pretty good idea on its own, and I'd prefer not to live on a planet blighted of trees and glaciers. While we don't yet know everything about the impact we are having on the earth, I see no harm in trying to be concious about our ecological footprint, and taking care to make it as small as possible.

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on a personal level I agree! But as far a glaciers go, Minnesota and Canada are glad to see them gone!

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Hey, glaciers keep the rabble out!

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For a lot of people, it does seem to be a religion, doesn't it?

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digex.livejournal.com

>For a lot of people, it does seem to be a religion, doesn't it?

wombat - are you using that description in a pejorative way?

doug

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I suppose it could be taken that way, but knowing me as long as you have, you should know better than that. ;)

Seriously, though...among the various people I have known who have pounded the drum for one environmental cause or another over the last thirty years or so,

chebutykin stands out as an exception in that she's willing to argue about the issue using science and reason as opposed to name-calling and other such poo-flinging measures used by people who really don't have the facts to back up their bullshit about how we should all be living like Neolithic savages. Most of them just seem to parrot whatever talking points the current guru is preaching, like they were Moonies or something.

Personally, I'm not impressed by most arguments that we should "save the Earth" or that "the Earth is our mother". That bitch Gaia has been trying to kill me since I was a little kid. Why should I cut her any slack? ;)

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About the only organic thing that I will religiously buy organic is eggs, because they taste far yummier to me. Otherwise, I'm all for the sciencification of foods. I'm not big on additives, but I'm all for genetic engineering.

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*nods* Speaking of genetic engineering, I'm bemused by all the hooraw about "Frankenfoods". Do these people think corn, wheat, dairy cattle as we know them now, and other domestic critters/veggies are the way they are naturally? It's become another indicator for me that someone doesn't know WTF they're talking about.

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Well, it has gone horribly awry in the past (ref: BT corn), and some of the activists I know actually are genetic engineers and know what they're talking about, so not all the hoohah is entirely wrong-headed. But I don't happen to think that should necessarily barricade us from exploring genetic modification as a possibility. It just means we need to be careful with how we weild the tool.

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materia-indigo.livejournal.com

I will continue to purchase organic produce and organically raised animal products when I can (at least the stuff I can't grow in my own (organic) garden).

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