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[livejournal.com profile] ursulav contemplates literature and its lack of stupid people among the ranks of heroes and heroines. Her task is complicated by misunderstanding the Bertie Wooster stories, in which Bertie supplies the POV but the real hero is invariably Jeeves. I mean, Wodehouse had this down to a formula: Bertie has a problem, usually inflicted by one of his annoying relatives (although sometimes the product of his own well-intentioned thickheadedness) and needs Jeeves to save the day with his +5 Brain of Awesomeness. The fun, of course, is in trying to figure out exactly how Jeeves is going to save the day, or just enjoying the ride while waiting to see how Jeeves is going to get Bertie out of this one*.

I think the problem is really more basic. People like to identify with the protagonist/POV character, and very few of us like to think we're dumb. Most of us prefer to think we're equipped with at least average smarts, or at least have above-average skill in something that makes up for conventional paper-pushing braininess**. Most of us even enjoy stories about heroes or heroines who are smarter, tougher, and/or better looking than ourselves. But put somebody in the protagonist slot who is demonstrably stupid, and people will tune out. Even in "Flowers For Algernon", the main character moves along the arc from slow and dull to supergenius and then back to slow again, and therein lies the tragedy that makes the story work. If Charlie stays dumb all the way through, where's your story? Even in an ensemble cast, the dumb guy (or gal) isn't going to be the lead; they're going to be a glorified spear carrier or the Boy Blunder whose screwups require the rest to bail him out of trouble.

So, no. You're not going to see stupid people carrying the story, or of you do, nobody's going to like it unless it's an obvious parody.

* I might go so far as to argue that Bertie's not really dumb, he's just plagued with the kind of relations who pose the kind of problem that only a genius can solve. Otherwise, he's a solid English stereotype gentleman who might be a distant cousin of Ron Weasley.
** We tend to overrate the bookish, intellectual skills in this culture, often to our detriment.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-08-07 08:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harvey-rrit.livejournal.com
Movies, not so much.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-08-07 09:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wombat-socho.livejournal.com
Are they genuinely dumb heroes, or just average people stuck with the Idiot Ball by the all-powerful scriptwriter?

(no subject)

Date: 2013-08-07 09:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harvey-rrit.livejournal.com
By the WHAT?

Know why fiction sells? It's better than real life. This is because fiction is controlled by a writer, while real life only has a Director.

This is also why real life has too many explosions and a lame plot, and the star is the Director's girlfriend's illegitimate son.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-08-07 10:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wombat-socho.livejournal.com
Boy, you're bound and determined to ruin all my delusions, aren't you?

Also, proof to the contrary: Harlan Ellison. Did he EVER write anything that was better than real life? A lot of things WORSE, but I can't recall anything better, at least not off the top of my head. Oh wait, I forgot that episode of Star Wars he wrote. [/Penny Arcade reference]

(no subject)

Date: 2013-08-08 12:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harvey-rrit.livejournal.com
I said better, not more fun. (Although his stuff I read as a kid was of a decidedly cheerier cast than my life at the time.)

Whisky Tango Foxtrot STAR WARS?

(no subject)

Date: 2013-08-08 09:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wombat-socho.livejournal.com
It may have been one of the few times in his life Mr. Ellison had no snappy comeback (http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/19000).

(no subject)

Date: 2013-08-07 09:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] haikujaguar.livejournal.com
I would read a hero who is not as smart as the characters around them, if they were more good. Good as in big-hearted, true, kind, gentle, noble... happy and joyful and grateful.

In my experience, intelligence is not often linked with these things.

(no subject)

Date: 2013-08-07 10:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wombat-socho.livejournal.com
You could make a case for Ivan Denisovich Shukhov (from One Day In The Life Of Ivan Denisovich) falling into that category. Hell, for a zek in the GULAG, he's practically saintly.

Re-stupid heros

Date: 2013-08-14 10:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blindfury1.livejournal.com
Hi,
Followed you over from a post on Deathquaker’s blog.
Society does like dumb heroes, as long as their stupidity gives them singular incite…Forest Gump…etc. That’s why R.D.J.’s character in Tropic thunder says “Never go full retard.” Guess we like our stupid with a shot of brilliance.

Re: Re-stupid heros

Date: 2013-08-14 11:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wombat-socho.livejournal.com
I don't know that Forrest Gump is actually stupid. He certainly acts wiser than a lot of the other characters in the movie, to say nothing of being more kind and generous besides.
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