I only see the bright flash far away; the gamma and thermal pulses are too distant to affect me

[wombat_socho]

"There's marriage, and there's everything else." Thus spake Cobb, and as I watch the fallout from the detonation of a friend's long time relationship, I have to wonder why more people don't get this and act accordingly. Sure, promises were made and broken, but this is why marriage used to be so damn hard to get out of. Marriage is SERIOUS FUCKING BUSINESS. You're making a legal commitment which is going to kneecap you financially as well as emotionally if you fuck it up. That's what it's there for. The tax incentives and stuff are just society encouraging what ought to be happening naturally. Any other kind of long-term relationship that involves sex and friendship that doesn't end up in marriage is going to explode sooner or later, and there are damn few exceptions I can think of that would prove me wrong. Like only one*. I find it significant that California and some other states snuck palimony into the legal system because they were too high-class to admit they wanted to put the stamp of approval on common-law marriage, which everyone knew was for trashy Southern folk and not glittering Hollywood people. Whatever.

I feel bad for both the people involved, but at the same time a little frustrated that they couldn't see this coming a mile away. Men who act like dogs aren't going to suddenly get up on their hind legs and start wearing Armani. Women going through stress that makes them crazy who won't put some of it down shouldn't be surprised that other people get tired of their shit and start looking for fun elsewhere. You want commitment? Get a ring. Nothing else works, because nothing else can call in John Law and the Church for backup.

*Edited because jolest is right, as usual.

Comments

[windelina.livejournal.com]

I agree with both of you here.

1. Marriage wouldn't have saved this relationship. Making more of a commitment just means it would've been messier in the long run (that's me agreeing with P).

2. The relationship was never going to work and years were spent with both sides not copping to that fact (that's me agreeing with WS). Nobody - least of all themselves - should be surprised by this outcome.

[433.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Would it have been better if they had gotten married? Of course not.

Amy and I have a house together, so the financial incentive to stay together is larger than marriage would be right now. Does that mean we're not going to get married? Of course not, we're planning on it in the future, but just for the toasters and the potentially higher taxes.

People in relationships should treat each other with respect and should act in accordance with the rules they have come up with. If you're not willing to do it for the person you love, a contract from The State won't make a damn bit of difference.

[qob.livejournal.com]

Contemplating marriage makes you count the cost in a way that a "committed relationship" can't No they shouldn't have gotten married, but if you reach the point where you have to shit or get off the pot, you have to make hard choices that you don't get to otherwise.

[433.livejournal.com]

The simple fact that 50% of marriages end in divorce these days means that not enough people are making those hard choices, and that marriage itself is not the be-all, end-all of successful relationships.

[qob.livejournal.com]

yea, I definitely agree with you here. I have way too much to say here that would be better shared over a cuppa than on LJ.

[wombat-socho.livejournal.com]

I'll be coming up again for Detour this year, and it's in St. Paul. We should get together and have a talk.

[wombat-socho.livejournal.com]

If you're not willing to do it for the person you love, a contract from The State won't make a damn bit of difference.

But it will make you think twice about screwing off, unless you're too stupid to take long term consequences into consideration. And that's all I'm saying.

[433.livejournal.com]

Again, it should, but statistics show that it doesn't right now.

[wombat-socho.livejournal.com]

Statistics are for average people!

Having contributed to those statistics, I agree, it doesn't always work. I do think - and I'm admittedly extrapolating from personal experience and occasional observation - it helps.

[wombat-socho.livejournal.com]

1. I disagree. I think marriage might possibly have acted as a brake on behavior that eventually disrupted the relationship. Unfortunately this is like the argument for concealed carry - it works better in the aggregate for large numbers of people than it does for individual couples.

2. It could have been made to work, but it would have been damn hard. Odds were not good; despite my innate misanthropy I am hesitant to say "never" since I've seen longer shots come in. Still, you know them better than I do.

[windelina.livejournal.com]

Actually - I think you and I agree but just come at it from opposite directions.

My interpretation of what you are saying is:
You believe marriage might have acted as some sort of glue to help them make more of a commitment to change and to fixing things.
(You're right - I do know these people better and I know some of the core issues involved and for it to work would have meant one of them agreeing to do something completely foreign to their nature. Giving up some part of who they were deep down.)

I believe marriage can act as a sort of filter or ultimate test. If they had been marriage-minded (some people don't see themselves as ever getting married, after all), they might have asked themselves "should we get married?" and if the answer is "no" then use that information to either fix things to get to the point where it is "yes" or get out of the relationship. If things aren't going to go there ultimately (with "there" equalling a life-long commitment to each other) then why bother?

I am a child of divorce and know the hurts it causes. I also believe deep in my soul that my parents divorcing is the best thing that could have happened to me. If my father had been given more influence in my life, I would've had some real problems.

I believe in marriage - obviously, since I'm married. And I would not have gotten married unless I truly and honestly believed that we could make it work for the rest of our lives. I believe in myself enough to know that if things fell apart that I would survive (otherwise how to you have the strength to open yourself up to the potential hurt?). But I am not one who believes in getting married "for now and let's see how it works out."

[wombat-socho.livejournal.com]

Actually - I think you and I agree but just come at it from opposite directions.

We do this a fair bit, it seems. :/
That having been said, I agree with your comment and don't really have anything to add.