Gathering of the clans, er, chieftains

[wombat_socho]

michaellee has been pimping this website aggressively of late, and I have some gut reactions. I'm posting them here because, well, I'm not really part of Twin Cities fandom any more. My future in fandom, such as it is, will be defined by whatever I do here in the Baltimore/Washington are. So I don't think it's my place to shit up League of Wonders with my comments.


With all due respect to Joe, I think he's trying to reinvent the wheel with an amazing new polygonal design. Bringing together representatives from the major fan groups to collaborate on joint projects sounds like a good idea at first blush - but what, exactly, are those projects supposed to be? A couple of the projects mentioned seem to me (despite the nod to voluntary membership) more like a prelude to lumping all the fan organizations - or at least those large & organized enough to be running conventions - together in one group, a group that will be wealthy enough to buy a clubhouse.

There was a time in my life when I thought all SF societies ought to have a club house, but I was about half the age I am now and relatively naive about fans and fandom. Yes, LASFS and NESFA have clubhouses, and possibly there are others, but does anyone seriously think Twin Cities fandom is large enough (and well-off enough) to afford such a thing? Sure, VFW halls are available for what look like reasonable prices, but that's just the purchase price. Who's going to maintain that hall? Is the parent org (let's just call it MTC, Misfits Twin Cities, because we all know who the 800-pound gorillas on the proposed Board are going to be) going to hire a caretaker? What about the bar? Are we really going to store all the stuff for Convergence and Detour and the other five Twin Cities conventions in the hall?

There is a reason fan groups tend to meet in peoples' living rooms and occasional hotel function spaces, when they aren't hanging out in neighborhood restaurants helping the local economy. It helps build community and cohesion on a small scale, in a way that conventions don't. One of the things I've learned in 35 years as a fan is that big things grow out of small groups of people who know and trust each other well enough to want to work together on those big things. Are you really going to get that out of a clubhouse that belongs to some bunch of wannabee SMOFs that most people who attend Detour and Convergence (to say nothing of Marscon, Minicon, Diversicon, Arcana, and Consume) will never have met, much less had a good conversation with, in their lives?

If you're getting the impression that I think MTC as Jon's described it is a Bad Idea, you're damned right I do. The current parent organizations of Convergence and Detour are essentially creatures of the convention staffs, and the idea that they represent the average SF fan or otaku is a sick joke. Admittedly, most of the 5000+ members of those convention (I'm assuming there's about a 2000-fan overlap) could probably care less who's filing the Form 990s with the IRS as long as the Consuites have plenty of pop and munchies and the yaoi/Raptor panels happen on schedule, but you could cause a lot of trouble for both organizations if you started showing up to meetings with 20-30 friends on a regular basis. Every dollar spent by Misfits and ATC comes out of those fans' pockets, and if it isn't going to the convention or back to the community*, I submit that it's being pissed away. Sure, the IRS says those 501(c)(3)s can spend money on buying a clubhouse or renting office space. They can also pay salaries to the directors/Regents, too. Does anyone think that's okay? Didn't think so.

I'm willing to stipulate that Jon means well with his proposal. I'm not at all sanguine about the notion of a "coordinating organization" that has the power to grant or withhold seed money and/or assistance. There's no reason ATC and Misfits can't work together to do things that they both have a common interest in doing, and the same goes for SF Minnesota and MNSTF, etc. I don't think there needs to be a new organization to do that, and I assert that there are plenty of reasons not to start one. Especially if the idea is to set up a Geek Community Center.

Protip: We already have those. They're called "libraries".

*With a nominal amount for hookers and blowadmin expenses.

Comments

[burnunit.livejournal.com]

Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment! It is a hell of an assumption!

The howls? Oh come on, would I have said "boo" if I wasn't expecting howls? Does yours count as a howl? Cuz that was pretty mild, even sensible questions if it was. Questions which deserve answers—and I only have a few answers to those at this exact moment.

Incentives: To a certain extent, the same incentive they have for building libraries, sports stadiums, and theaters. The "good corporate citizenship game" is well established and there will be no need to reinvent the wheel there. This area has a very rich tradition of very rich corporate and private citizens giving their money away—and to much much smaller constituencies than we represent. Our people are employed by General Mills, Medtronic, Boston Scientific, Target, Best Buy, and on and on. Those companies pour millions into projects just like this. They get to burnish their reputations, the little guys get some money. We send kids to space camp. We brought rocket science to elementary schools. We're supporting literacy. These are worthwhile goals that fat cats can and do eat up.

Terms: Did Medtronic dictate The Guthrie's recent Tony Kushner celebration? Does Target dictate anything to the team despite how bad the Timberwolves are, laying seasons-long piles of dog doo on the floor of the Center bearing their name?

[wombat-socho.livejournal.com]

Coming from a MISFITS background, I understand what you're saying, but ATC (to name just one group) is not MISFITS. All those things you named are things that you are doing for your objectives as a 501(c)(3), but they are not the same as ATC's objectives, which have nothing to do with science or literacy and everything to do with the study of a particular culture.

There is also a history of corporate involvement in anime fandom that is largely absent in SF fandom, and it is not a happy history. While it isn't as bad as, say, the Creation Cons and their history in media fandom, it is enough to provoke anime fans to anger if/when they see distributors actively involved in conventions. This is at the root of what phoenixalpha was referring to.

[porcelainsakura.livejournal.com]

While I can't speak directly for ATC, I will say from my POV that they are evolving and seem to want to do so.
They have been reaching out to schools and libraries and it was quiet the topic of the last meeting that they wish to become an entity that isn't just the backer of Detour.

I feel perhaps people are taking it far too literal. It's not like blueprints are being drawn and contracts being bid on as we speak, I think Jon and Mike are just trying to open the conversation and start the pot going for now.

[wombat-socho.livejournal.com]

"They have been reaching out to schools and libraries and it was quiet the topic of the last meeting that they wish to become an entity that isn't just the backer of Detour."

Which is good, because ATC was never meant to be just the parent company of Detour. As stuckintraffik pointed out in the LoW blog, ATC has always given generously to the Red Cross, the MN Historical Society, and other worthy causes that really don't have much to do with Japanese culture & language.

I hear what you're saying, but honestly, we're not trying to strangle LoW in the cradle, even if it sounds like that. We're contributing to the conversation by pointing out that this sort of thing has been tried before, and we need to look at the failure of those attempts before we start working on another one. This is exactly what I did before setting up the structure of ATC and Detour, by the way; I spent a lot of time reading the MNSTF archives and talking to people who had been through the HRMP Wars (and the Balticon/Boskone equivalents) so that I could take what precautions I could in setting up ATC and Detour. I'd like to think I succeeded, but it's still too early to tell.

[phoenixalpha.livejournal.com]

There's a vast gap between the Guthrie or the Timberwolves and CONvergence, Anime Detour, Minicon, etc. It's a difference of stature within the community, public exposure, mission drive, and general purpose. Comparatively speaking, even with all of Minnesota fandom, we are at a much smaller scale than those organizations, with much less revenue, much less publicity, and, frankly, we're a lot less acceptable by the terms of mainstream culture, especially during the conventions themselves.

Moreover, the idea of uniting all the conventions under one banner is a really, really bad one. As much as I agree in fandom as an overall culture, qob had it quite right when he mentioned too many Alpha Personalities. There's also a fair amount of drama and mission differences. Fandom is not a united whole, fandom is not, as a rule, organized and with it. Staff members, volunteers, are the exception, and not the rule.

Even in terms of staff, you'll come across some astoundingly bad decisions and drama machines. As you begin to increase the size of the organization - and I'm referring to staff here, not congoers themselves - the drama multiplies exponentially. From my point of view, having separate balkanized convention organizations is a Good Thing. This limits the scope of damage that can be done by one con melting down, one treasurer stealing from the coffers, one disagreement.

As matters stand now, conventions throw room parties at other conventions and discuss matters between themselves, exchanging ideas and remaining on generally good terms, with occasional staff crossover. I think this is a fine model. At the end of the day, though, fandom is a vast and fractured beast... and as much as I adore CONvergence and Detour both, as wombat_socho said, ATC and MISFITS are not the same organizationally by any means. Different mission drive, different demographic, different staff ethos.